Wednesday, December 1, 2010

Honda Reflex Group Digest Number 5038

Honda Reflex Owners Group

Messages In This Digest (8 Messages)

1a.
Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold From: J.J.
1b.
Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold From: kudzoo22
1c.
Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold From: gweideman2000
1d.
Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold From: Richard Brunner
2a.
Re: Hard starting when cold From: gweideman2000
2b.
Re: Hard starting when cold From: rick r
3.1.
File - Monthly Information Update Reminder.txt From: hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com
4.1.
File - REMINDER - Check your oil each ride day From: hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com

Messages

1a.

Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold

Posted by: "J.J." ringsofsaturn@juno.com   jamesearljon

Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:55 am (PST)



I have the scooter torn down to parade rest ( all of the plastic removed) It's going to be fun putting it back together. I tried propane to look for leaks around carb, and there was no increase in power. I injected propane into the air filer compartment and the rpm's increased slightly.
The fuel pump , pumped out the required amount of fuel and I did not see and debris in the fuel. I found some Honda manual discrepancies in the resistance readings of the fuel pump.
I drained the float bowel on the carb and it looked clean.
I did the operational check on the starter enrichment valve and it checked well. The resistance checks good and 12vs at the incoming connector.
The throttle positioned reads open from the yellow to green wire leading to the sensor. But I'm getting readings from the red to yellow and red to green when operating the throttle from close position to full throttle. Also some strange readings ???? I'm an aircraft electrician/ electronics for 36 years and it's got me confused.
The Honda manual for the reflex scooter has a lot of electrical error in there write ups .
I siphoned some fuel from the bottom of my gas tank and there is some sludge of some sort at the bottom of the tank. Since I have the bike torn down I will clean out the tank and put new fuel lines in and fuel filter.
My next Endeavour will be taking the carb out and to check it over….. The manual also says, if the Throttle position sensor reads incorrectly to change the whole carburetor. I don't see any where you can purchase a Throttle sensor for the bike, without buying the whole carb.
I will have future updates later, I'm in no hurry to get her running right now,
Man my garage is crowed now with plastic and parts.

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, Ira K <bigirakay@...> wrote:
>
>     What about the carb adjusting screw.????
>
> --- On Mon, 11/29/10, markobaldo <msbryer@...> wrote:
>
> From: markobaldo <msbryer@...>
> Subject: Honda Reflex Group Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold
> To: hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, November 29, 2010, 12:29 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I avoid using starting fluid (ether) as it washes all the lubricant off the cylinder walls.
>
> JMHO,
>
> Mark
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Two weeks ago I changed the spark plugs, airfilter, and adjusted the valves Hoping it would fix the problem. Spark Plug looked great air filter was ok, but changed it anyway. I noticed one of the band screws missing on the band clamp from carb to intake manifold and replaced it and tighten down till band clamp came together.Is there another name for Starting Fluid?, so i can go out and purchase some.
>
> > My next step was to check the air flow ciruit at the Starter Enrichment (SE) valve.
>
> > Bruce thanks for the info you have aready given me.
>
> >
>
> > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "BruceK" <bruce@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > No, the TPS has nothing to do with starting.
>
> > >
>
> > > Check the following:
>
> > >
>
> > > Clean dry sparkplug - no buildup on internal center electrode/insulator
>
> > >
>
> > > Plenty of starting voltage - jump to a non-running car battery - the Honda Ignition REQUIRES a lot of voltage - a WEAK BATTERY creates a starting problem
>
> > >
>
> > > Squirt Starting Fluid in upper vent on left side (above footpeg) - if it starts better you have a fuel, or air leak problem
>
> > >
>
> > > Drain the Floatbowl into a jar (outside, away from flames) - check for water. Water lies in the bottom - gets sucked up instead of gas until running vibration mixes the fuel with the water
>
> > >
>
> > > Check compression - must be over 200#
>
> > >
>
> > > Change your brand of fuel - some are better than others for cold weather
>
> > >
>
> > > Please post back
>
> > >
>
> > > Bruce
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold. I did a resistance check on the Starter Enrichment (SE) valve, the resistance checked good but unable at this time to check the air flow into the circuit yet.
>
> > > > I checked the Throttle Position (TP) sensor next and the resistance between the Yellow/black and Green/black wire are open to the sensor. Incoming voltage was good. The book says (if the measurements are abnormal, replace the carburetor assembly. My question is does the (TP) sensor have anything to do with cold starts?
>
> > > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

1b.

Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold

Posted by: "kudzoo22" kudzoo22@yahoo.com   kudzoo22

Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:20 pm (PST)





--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@...> wrote:
>
> I have the scooter torn down to parade rest ( all of the plastic removed) It's going to be fun putting it back together. I tried propane to look for leaks around carb, and there was no increase in power. I injected propane into the air filer compartment and the rpm's increased slightly.
> The fuel pump , pumped out the required amount of fuel and I did not see and debris in the fuel. I found some Honda manual discrepancies in the resistance readings of the fuel pump.
> I drained the float bowel on the carb and it looked clean.
> I did the operational check on the starter enrichment valve and it checked well. The resistance checks good and 12vs at the incoming connector.
> The throttle positioned reads open from the yellow to green wire leading to the sensor. But I'm getting readings from the red to yellow and red to green when operating the throttle from close position to full throttle. Also some strange readings ???? I'm an aircraft electrician/ electronics for 36 years and it's got me confused.
> The Honda manual for the reflex scooter has a lot of electrical error in there write ups .
> I siphoned some fuel from the bottom of my gas tank and there is some sludge of some sort at the bottom of the tank. Since I have the bike torn down I will clean out the tank and put new fuel lines in and fuel filter.
> My next Endeavour will be taking the carb out and to check it over….. The manual also says, if the Throttle position sensor reads incorrectly to change the whole carburetor. I don't see any where you can purchase a Throttle sensor for the bike, without buying the whole carb.
> I will have future updates later, I'm in no hurry to get her running right now,
> Man my garage is crowed now with plastic and parts.
>
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, Ira K <bigirakay@> wrote:
> >
> >     What about the carb adjusting screw.????
> >
> > --- On Mon, 11/29/10, markobaldo <msbryer@> wrote:
> >
> > From: markobaldo <msbryer@>
> > Subject: Honda Reflex Group Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold
> > To: hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, November 29, 2010, 12:29 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I avoid using starting fluid (ether) as it washes all the lubricant off the cylinder walls.
> >
> > JMHO,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Two weeks ago I changed the spark plugs, airfilter, and adjusted the valves Hoping it would fix the problem. Spark Plug looked great air filter was ok, but changed it anyway. I noticed one of the band screws missing on the band clamp from carb to intake manifold and replaced it and tighten down till band clamp came together.Is there another name for Starting Fluid?, so i can go out and purchase some.
> >
> > > My next step was to check the air flow ciruit at the Starter Enrichment (SE) valve.
> >
> > > Bruce thanks for the info you have aready given me.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "BruceK" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > No, the TPS has nothing to do with starting.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Check the following:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Clean dry sparkplug - no buildup on internal center electrode/insulator
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Plenty of starting voltage - jump to a non-running car battery - the Honda Ignition REQUIRES a lot of voltage - a WEAK BATTERY creates a starting problem
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Squirt Starting Fluid in upper vent on left side (above footpeg) - if it starts better you have a fuel, or air leak problem
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Drain the Floatbowl into a jar (outside, away from flames) - check for water. Water lies in the bottom - gets sucked up instead of gas until running vibration mixes the fuel with the water
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Check compression - must be over 200#
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Change your brand of fuel - some are better than others for cold weather
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Please post back
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Bruce
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold. I did a resistance check on the Starter Enrichment (SE) valve, the resistance checked good but unable at this time to check the air flow into the circuit yet.
> >
> > > > > I checked the Throttle Position (TP) sensor next and the resistance between the Yellow/black and Green/black wire are open to the sensor. Incoming voltage was good. The book says (if the measurements are abnormal, replace the carburetor assembly. My question is does the (TP) sensor have anything to do with cold starts?
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> take the float bowl off and get a short flathead screw driver
> > and take the idle jet out.....insert a small paper clip or small
> > wire and clean the hole out. it's a very small hole easy to get
> > stopped up.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

1c.

Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold

Posted by: "gweideman2000" gweideman@hotmail.com   gweideman2000

Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:26 pm (PST)



I have the same type of issue now ...

Originally it would not start - Had the carb rebuilt and it starts when it's very warm outside but will not start when it's cold ..

Have not checked the Starter Enrichment valve yet ..

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@...> wrote:
>
> I have the scooter torn down to parade rest ( all of the plastic removed) It's going to be fun putting it back together. I tried propane to look for leaks around carb, and there was no increase in power. I injected propane into the air filer compartment and the rpm's increased slightly.
> The fuel pump , pumped out the required amount of fuel and I did not see and debris in the fuel. I found some Honda manual discrepancies in the resistance readings of the fuel pump.
> I drained the float bowel on the carb and it looked clean.
> I did the operational check on the starter enrichment valve and it checked well. The resistance checks good and 12vs at the incoming connector.
> The throttle positioned reads open from the yellow to green wire leading to the sensor. But I'm getting readings from the red to yellow and red to green when operating the throttle from close position to full throttle. Also some strange readings ???? I'm an aircraft electrician/ electronics for 36 years and it's got me confused.
> The Honda manual for the reflex scooter has a lot of electrical error in there write ups .
> I siphoned some fuel from the bottom of my gas tank and there is some sludge of some sort at the bottom of the tank. Since I have the bike torn down I will clean out the tank and put new fuel lines in and fuel filter.
> My next Endeavour will be taking the carb out and to check it over….. The manual also says, if the Throttle position sensor reads incorrectly to change the whole carburetor. I don't see any where you can purchase a Throttle sensor for the bike, without buying the whole carb.
> I will have future updates later, I'm in no hurry to get her running right now,
> Man my garage is crowed now with plastic and parts.
>
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, Ira K <bigirakay@> wrote:
> >
> >     What about the carb adjusting screw.????
> >
> > --- On Mon, 11/29/10, markobaldo <msbryer@> wrote:
> >
> > From: markobaldo <msbryer@>
> > Subject: Honda Reflex Group Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold
> > To: hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, November 29, 2010, 12:29 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I avoid using starting fluid (ether) as it washes all the lubricant off the cylinder walls.
> >
> > JMHO,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Two weeks ago I changed the spark plugs, airfilter, and adjusted the valves Hoping it would fix the problem. Spark Plug looked great air filter was ok, but changed it anyway. I noticed one of the band screws missing on the band clamp from carb to intake manifold and replaced it and tighten down till band clamp came together.Is there another name for Starting Fluid?, so i can go out and purchase some.
> >
> > > My next step was to check the air flow ciruit at the Starter Enrichment (SE) valve.
> >
> > > Bruce thanks for the info you have aready given me.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "BruceK" <bruce@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > No, the TPS has nothing to do with starting.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Check the following:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Clean dry sparkplug - no buildup on internal center electrode/insulator
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Plenty of starting voltage - jump to a non-running car battery - the Honda Ignition REQUIRES a lot of voltage - a WEAK BATTERY creates a starting problem
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Squirt Starting Fluid in upper vent on left side (above footpeg) - if it starts better you have a fuel, or air leak problem
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Drain the Floatbowl into a jar (outside, away from flames) - check for water. Water lies in the bottom - gets sucked up instead of gas until running vibration mixes the fuel with the water
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Check compression - must be over 200#
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Change your brand of fuel - some are better than others for cold weather
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Please post back
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Bruce
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "J.J." <ringsofsaturn@> wrote:
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold. I did a resistance check on the Starter Enrichment (SE) valve, the resistance checked good but unable at this time to check the air flow into the circuit yet.
> >
> > > > > I checked the Throttle Position (TP) sensor next and the resistance between the Yellow/black and Green/black wire are open to the sensor. Incoming voltage was good. The book says (if the measurements are abnormal, replace the carburetor assembly. My question is does the (TP) sensor have anything to do with cold starts?
> >
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

1d.

Re: 2005 Reflex Hard to start when cold

Posted by: "Richard Brunner" brunneraa1p@comcast.net   berlindresdenmichelstadt

Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:11 pm (PST)



Re:
> Originally it would not start - Had the carb rebuilt and it starts
> when it's very warm outside but will not start when it's cold ..

My reflex runs like a top when it's reasonably warm, but wouldn't start
around 40 F. I changed to Mobile 1 synthetic, and yesterday it started
instantly at 20 F. Apparently regular oil thickens significantly when
cold, and synthetic doesn't. (I didn't do any riding at 20 F. but it's
nice to know I could...)

Richard

2a.

Re: Hard starting when cold

Posted by: "gweideman2000" gweideman@hotmail.com   gweideman2000

Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:32 pm (PST)



Changed air filter and plug and still will not start when it's cold ..

It does not try to fire very much either ..

If I sniff it with starter fluid it fires right up and I have to keep it wound up to keep it running until it gets warmed up ..

checked the carb connection band and it's very tight ..

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "BruceK" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Possibly an air leak - maybe the carb isn't tight - or an air (vacuum) hose is loose or mis-routed.
>
> There IS a "choke" of sorts - the Starting Enrichment Valve (SEV), but it is ON (choked) by default, and is "unchoked" by electrical current heating it. It is POSSIBLE that is is defective, but I think more likely an air leak.
>
> Be sure to read the Starting Tips in the FILES section.
>
> Please post back
>
> Bruce
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "gweideman2000" <gweideman@> wrote:
> >
> > Well I finally got my carb cleaned, jet was clogged and now it runs well
> >
> > But when it's cold it's hard to start and keep running until it warms up ...
> >
> > I assume there is an automatic choke and it is likely not working ..
> >
> > Any tips to diagnose ?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>

2b.

Re: Hard starting when cold

Posted by: "rick r" silverford_96@yahoo.com   silverford_96

Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:45 pm (PST)



I still wonder how many of these hard to start is because of the battery. Mine would not start but would turnover fine. new battery no problem. Please try jump starting from a car battery {car not running} before you start taking things apart. May solve the problem.

--- On Tue, 11/30/10, gweideman2000 <gweideman@hotmail.com> wrote:

From: gweideman2000 <gweideman@hotmail.com>
Subject: Honda Reflex Group Re: Hard starting when cold
To: hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 30, 2010, 3:32 PM

 

Changed air filter and plug and still will not start when it's cold ..

It does not try to fire very much either ..

If I sniff it with starter fluid it fires right up and I have to keep it wound up to keep it running until it gets warmed up ..

checked the carb connection band and it's very tight ..

--- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "BruceK" <bruce@...> wrote:
>
> Possibly an air leak - maybe the carb isn't tight - or an air (vacuum) hose is loose or mis-routed.
>
> There IS a "choke" of sorts - the Starting Enrichment Valve (SEV), but it is ON (choked) by default, and is "unchoked" by electrical current heating it. It is POSSIBLE that is is defective, but I think more likely an air leak.
>
> Be sure to read the Starting Tips in the FILES section.
>
> Please post back
>
> Bruce
>
> --- In hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com, "gweideman2000" <gweideman@> wrote:
> >
> > Well I finally got my carb cleaned, jet was clogged and now it runs well
> >
> > But when it's cold it's hard to start and keep running until it warms up ...
> >
> > I assume there is an automatic choke and it is likely not working ..
> >
> > Any tips to diagnose ?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

3.1.

File - Monthly Information Update Reminder.txt

Posted by: "hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com" hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com

Wed Dec 1, 2010 4:00 am (PST)




Please visit the Polls section monthly to see if you can add some information regarding things like:
> Tire life
> Belt life
> Brake pad life
etc., based on YOUR recent experiences.
You can also take a look at other member's experiences with these and other items.

Also take a look at the Database section and add your info -
or view that posted by others on topics like:
> Member's locations and other info
> K-mod experience
> equipment
> Dealer experince
and other topics that may be added.

By providing your information, you are helping everyone
to have a better scootering experience.

THanks
Bruce

PS - even if you have "voted" previously in a Poll, you can update your previous entry anytime.

4.1.

File - REMINDER - Check your oil each ride day

Posted by: "hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com" hondareflexowners@yahoogroups.com

Wed Dec 1, 2010 4:00 am (PST)




MONTHLY WELL-INTENTIONED REMINDER

Fuel System:

Keep the fuel tank full - especially during prolonged storage - to avoid rust.

Exhaust System:

Check all of the fasteners along the exhaust system and PAIR Emission system at each preventive maintenance check to help avoid blown exhaust gaskets and damaged PAIR items. Torque on headpipe studs is 7ft/lb, 9 Nm.

Fork Tubes:

Clean them to prolong fork tube seal life.

Tire Pressure:

CHECK THE TIRE PRESSURE EACH DAY YOU RIDE!!!

OIL LEVEL:

At least two members have experienced a catastrophic engine failure
due to oil loss!!!!

NEITHER observed tailpipe smoke or seepage or a puddle of oil.

At least one - a conservative rider - checked his oil (among other things)
WEEKLY - so his oil loss happened in a week's time of LOCAL ridng!

Hopefully, they will find out how the oil escaped when they
disassemble the engine so that we can learn from that
and avoid such a failure.

Meanwhile, CHECK THE OIL LEVEL EACH DAY YOU RIDE!!!

If one simply unscrews the dipstick and looks at the level on it, that dipstick was inserted about 1/2 inch FURTHER than the way it is to be done!!!!! - because it was SCREWED IN!!!!

It will give an artificially HIGH oil level indication.

It is imperative to:

1. Park the scooter on the centerstand - on flat ground.
NEVER DO THIS CHECK ON THE SIDESTAND!!!

2. Remove the dipstick, then wipe it with a clean lintfee wipe.

3. Reinsert the dipstick WITHOUT SCREWING IT IN
in order to get a correct check on the oil level.

4. Withdraw the dipstick without having screwed it in.

5. Check that the oil level is within the level marks on the dipstick.

Be careful to not overfill.

The following addition from Rick in Ny:

P.S. The crosshatch squares are clear of oil when you wipe the dip stick
clean. When you insert it and remove it these little squares will have oil in
them to show how high you oil level is.

P.P.S. Too much oil has caused some people to loose power also. (Such as oil
dripping out when you take the dip stick out) Rick in KY

That's because the excess oil is sucked up into the the air filter
via the crankcase breather - Bruce

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